Hathor, Isis, Mother and Mary Magdalene- Who Tells Your Story for You?

Hathor, Isis, Mother and Mary Magdalene- Who Tells Your Story for You?

‘If you want to be spiritual, ask uncomfortable questions,’ Goddess News, Spiritual Blog, Divine Feminine,

Dr Joanna Kujawa, Spiritual Detective :).

After a series of blogs on the lineage of goddesses associated with Mary Magdalene,  I have reached the  conclusion that there is a significant yet suspicious duality in the representation of two competing female archetypes of goddesses: Mary the Mother and Mary Magdalene.

I have always maintained that this kind of duality is not only artificial but also undoubtedly a figment of the ascetic mind of old patriarchs afraid of anything fun and sexy, unable to conceive a feminine that is empowered both intellectually and sexually and at the same time can also be a mother-figure.

The reason why I maintain that this could only be the result of the limited and poor imagination of paranoid patriarchs is that nearly every woman – if she explores her powers and possibilities – knows that she can, if she chooses so, be all or any of the above. What the patriarchs could not imagine, many women have managed to live.

But this was only intuition on my part until … well … I did my research. At the beginning, I simply and innocently wanted to explore the Isis archetype, as there have been many so strange things written about her that I wanted to set the record straight. Also, with my academic background I am often suspicious of the New Age take on the ancient goddesses, where imagination and research are too freely mixed – or so I believed. Fortunately, I came across a wonderful book, Goddesses in Myth, History and Culture and found within a chapter on Isis with sufficient references and research to satisfy me.

As I have discussed in my series of blogs on Inanna, Ishtar and Mary Magdalene, Isis not only has a relationship to all of them but on her own, she also has a fascinating Egyptian history. Although I have no doubt she is an alternate version of Inanna, she also has other connections – and one of them is to Hathor.

Now I love Hathor, as she is a sexy mama who liked her fun and did not apologise for it. A true bonne vivante. She is often represented in exactly the same way as Isis – as a beautiful young woman, with some of their portrayals indistinguishable from one another. There is a good reason for this. Hathor, as K K Rodin asserts in the book’s chapter ‘From Heaven to Hell, Virgin Mother to Witch: The Evolution of the Great Goddess of Egypt,’ merged at some point with Isis. She is also often mentioned as the consort of Horus, who was Isis’ son. 

I would like you to pay very clear attention here to how mainstream media and research represent goddesses in general: goddesses are always first defined as someone else’s consort or as mothers, even if they came before and were more powerful than the gods who came after them! 

But this important observation aside, both Hathor and Isis are often depicted with horns on their heads – something they inherited from an even earlier goddess, Nut, who was the original Egyptian Mother of the Sky. (The sky, in later mythologies, was almost exclusively considered to be male, as it was considered more ‘spiritual’ than the Earth, while the feminine was deemed to be bound to matter and therefore lower.)

Other representations of Hathor-Isis include as a cow, a winged goddess, lioness (when angry), a cat and even a hippopotamus. The cow had only good connotations, as Hathor’s milk was understood to be the ‘milk of life’ from a wonderful earthly power of life and enjoyment. She was a goddess who loved to dance and enjoyed sensuality of life in all its forms. In this aspect, Hathor is very similar to the Mesopotamian Goddess Ishtar.

But the similarities between Hathor and Isis end here. In many ways, Isis takes on other and more serious qualities, such as spiritual wisdom, as well as being goddess of the underworld and magic, the Virgin Mother of Horus and the sister-wife of Osiris, whom she resurrected.  The last two qualities were later copied and adjusted in Christianity to suit the image of the Holy Family, as well as being aligned with the story of the resurrection in the presence of Mary Magdalene (please see my blog or Youtube video on the Lineage of Goddesses …).  

The more mysterious and magical qualities of Isis, according to K K Rodin, included influence over the sun and moon, influence over time, the ability to give the breath of life to us, the ability to give us our earthly personality (our ba) and the ability to heal – which is why many of the priests in her temples were also physicians.

Interestingly, Isis, like the Sumerian and Assyrian Goddess Inanna before her, was also involved in divine mischief. As the story goes, Isis outwitted the ancient God Ra and forced him to tell her his secret name in which his power was contained. This was very same way that Inanna tricked her grandfather to steal his Me (power). However, while Inanna simply got her grandfather drunk, Isis nearly strangled Ra to death by creating a serpent out of her saliva and earth. The same story is later repeated in different versions in the Bible; for example in Jacob’s theft of his brother’s blessing and in Eve’s mischievous cooperation with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. The difference here is that all the power (good and bad) was taken away from the female protagonists and given to men.

The influence of Isis was so great that even in early Christian times, she could not be easily dismissed by the Fathers of the Church. Isis had temples in her name all over the Roman Empire and many powerful families paid her homage. The last temple in her name was only destroyed as late as the sixth century, which is a great indication of the endurance of her power.

One of the more interesting questions to ask is: what happened afterwards?

And here is where I enjoyed Rodin’s essay most because she shows how in the fifth century, when worship of Isis was still powerful, the Church simply decided to adopt her as the Holy Mother, which she had been all that time as the mother of Horus (and often represented as such). That is, they used the ‘nice’ and motherly part of Isis. Thus, Isis became incorporated into the dogma, but only after she had been reinterpreted again and stripped of her more ‘dangerous’ sexual and mysterious/magical qualities.

As for the magical and ‘darker’ part of Isis, it was reconfigured to that of a ‘damned witch’. The witch was incorporated into the pagan traditions of Europe –  the last surviving traditions to allow female priestesses. Ellen Reed, in her book Circle of Isis: Ancient Egyptian Magic for Modern Times,writes that the worship of Isis became a part of the revival of Wicca (modern witchery) tradition after the second world war. This tradition includes rituals through which ‘the Priest calls a Goddess to a Priestess who serves as a vessel … the Goddess speaks through a Priestess’ to the rest of the group or to an individual. 

Personally, I believe that Isis has some relation to the mysterious Gnostic Sophia – as she, too combines the archetypes of Wisdom and Sexuality. But I will write about in future blogs.

So, Isis’ divine genealogy is complex and I still stand by my original point here – until I find a better explanation – that Isis’ story, like many repressed representations of the divine feminine, is the same recurring Story of the Goddess which occurs under many different names and with only slight changes in the plot and character development. I have no doubt hers is a story that wants to be remembered, re-buried and retold.

The re-telling part is up to us, as it we who are in control of choosing our own archetypes and our own stories. The times when sanctified bureaucrats from institutionalised belief systems make these choices for us are over.   

I would love to hear your thoughts and feelings in the Comments,

With Love

Dr Joanna Kujawa

Goddess News Blog

©Joanna Kujawa
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33 Responses to Hathor, Isis, Mother and Mary Magdalene- Who Tells Your Story for You?

  1. Glenn Bogue says:

    Dr. Joanna continues her brilliance and courage….to leave no stone unturned. This Blog is LOADED with accurate observations. For those novice readers, start to make your chart of the ‘herstories’ as Dr. Joanna keeps her readers open to the possibility of an even better explanation.

    It is accurate to group Ninmah, Ishtar and Isis together, via her epithet ‘The Black Madonna.’

    However, Inanna is a different cat altogether. After seducing the ME’s from EnKi, Inanna left for the Indus Valley to establish her own distinct culture (as Shakti), and also to provide the sexual entertainment for the Annunaki miners in South Africa.

    Back in the Mediterranean, once we fully realize the effect of relativity (that one year for Nibiru equates to 3,600 Earth years), Ninmah can appear as several female goddesses in the timeline….most significantly, she appears as Isis (2800 BCE), then Solomon’s Asherah (1000 BCE), then HeZeus’ Athena (500 BCE).

    Her imagery is The Woman of the Tree (DNA), since she is the scientist who fashioned the first Eve and Adam in Sumer (200,000 BCE). In all, just 55 years, her time.

    Per the originating Gospel of John, she came up the river Jordan to marry HeZeus at the Wedding at Cana…becoming his Beloved. Hence the Greek royal title Mary (married) THE Magdalene, or THE Great One. Note the phrase ‘One Greater than Solomon is here.’

    Glenn Bogue
    The Books of Isis series

    • sundari says:

      Hi Glen,
      Thank you for your wonderful comment and appreciation of my Labour of Love. I love our esoteric interactions. It is wonderful to discuss our research with someone who is equally passionate about it. Like you, I am, looking for common links between goddesses to recover what is missing in our current spiritual well…desert. I love your inclusion of Shakti and will write more about Her as I have a special connection with Her as well. I am more in tune with some aspects of the Goddesses than others – it is probably my ‘ba’ (Egyptian) or ‘bhava’ in Sanskrit (an interesting linguistic similarity, is it not?). It is interesting that you separate Inanna from Ninmah -is there more evidence for that apart from the Anunnaki Creation?
      You might be interested in my upcoming blog later this month or early in February which discusses the possibility of many subsequent acts of creation – even before the times you have mentioned. I am looking forward to your comments on that one when it is out.
      Wishing you all the best with your passionate research – this is why Life is worth living – learning, loving, sharing and growing spiritually,
      Much love,
      Dr Joanna Kujawa

  2. Sumitra Bateman says:

    I’ve always been struck by the similarities in all religions. I’m sure our Patriarchal religions of Judaism, Christianity & Islam would all deny this fact, but they have a real fear of strong female architypes, much as most males of these groups fear strong women in their midst. It obviously makes sense that they need to categorise them all into angelic, virginal types, seductive predators or demonic witches. Your current blog really clarifies how the ancient goddesses images were changed to suit this masculine ideal

    • sundari says:

      Thank you, Sumitra, for your brave and insightful comment. It is so true and I think we all feel it women and evolved men that the ole feminine archetypes were portrayed in an …well…inauthentic way. This created havoc in many lives both for women with ridiculous archetypes that we were asked to follow and live up to and many men who are as confused as one can be when faced with this strange duality between a virginal mother and a sexy witch? It is even difficult to imagine that nonsense – but what about living it. I must say that Hollywood, equally as traditional religions, is guilty of perpetuating that nonsense that serve no one and creates confusion and unhappiness for everyone. On a personal level, you have always been one of the women who were examples of dignity, strength and femininity for me. Much love, Joanna xxx.

  3. Vinzent Liebig says:

    5TH January 2019 Dear Joanna,

    Thank you for your text. The idea, which moved me the most, was that you say that “we can choose our archetypes”. From the astrological point this is true insofar, as human beings all have the capacity of imagination and imagination has a strong effect on our subtle energies – if not, than why all these visualisations in Tantra? – our mental and psychosomatic states and thus at least also indirectly onto our day to day behaviour, not to mention the social and political implications of archetypical powers.

    There is a story about Karlfried Graf Dürckheim – probably the first German Zen-Master – meeting C. G. Jung and asking him: “What is an archetype?” And Jung reportedly replied: “Pattern of behaviour”. So we may conclude at least one thing with some certainty: “If the freedom to choose our archetypes does actually exist, choices on that level of reality might have pretty powerful consequences.”

    On the other hand it would be absolutely nonsensical to deny the fact, that when we get born here on planet earth, archetypes and other collective patterns already in existence in the culture, that we got born into and in one way it does not really matter, whether these are images were distorted by male blockheads or not. We get conditioned this or that way, for better or for worse. And having the choice to choose for our selves might offer a kind of freedom which can be very “empowering”.

    C. G. Jung states somewhere in his autobiography about the archetypes something like: “At a certain point I came into the possession of these forces in the double meaning of the word.” Difficult to give a correct translation here, but in the German original it is clear that what he meant to say was, that one the one hand he was possessed by these forces and on the other hand he was possessing these forces. So it is understandable – that is my perspective on it – that some people want to return to the cosmic void, the clear light, the Dharmakaya or the Dao, because in this dimension, which is beyond and at the same time containing and manifesting all and everything, true freedom may dawn, freedom from all archetypes, freedom from all powerful images, which might form ones existence so to say.

    But from the astrological point of view, human beings are microcosmic appearances of the macro cosmos and as such they always ARE the cosmic void, as well as wearing a unique cosmic costume made of a all the cosmic energies – which other people call archetypes – in a totally individual combination. And these cosmic energies appear in certain cycles and rhythms and form our life.

    Is there any option for free will and free choice in the astrological perspective?

    Some of my colleges tend to say categorically “No!” But I, being an Aquarius like you, having the Sun in that sign of the zodiac, which according to astrology loves freedom more than anything else – I guess you know what I am talking about – I tend to say “YES!”

    There is a little paradox here, right? Yes, it seems to me, that individual freedom is an inbuilt cosmic factor. The cosmos is much more than just a mechanical machine, which simply goes on and on and on and on without any chance for unforeseen developments.

    Couldn’t it be, that GOD – or All and Everything as I prefer to say – was courageous enough, to bring forth or create a being, the human being, which has the chance to be disobedient, misbehave, rebel, do it right, do it wrong, do it perfect, come up with totally unforeseen ideas and all kinds of surprising stuff? Seemingly this kind of cosmic courage did and still does exist, otherwise humanity would not have the slightest chance, to put itself into such an unbelievably terrifying and at the same time wonderful mess on planet earth, that we earthlings tend to call “the 21st Century” – right?

    One more anecdote in connection to Jungian psychology: When I was in Osho’s place 1979/80 I met a Jungian therapist several times who was in his seventies then and had been analyzed by C. G. Jung himself. His name was Paritosh, he was from Scotland and one day he said to me: “A therapist is a mediator of archetypes.”

    And one more personal anecdote: Some years ago the winter was very cold here and I was desperate. I would have liked so much to meet my spiritual teacher, but I was so sick, that I had to stay home. During this awfully grey and cold time a little bird with red feathers on its chest sang in my garden several times per day. And the song of that bird felt so confident, as if this bird was absolutely certain, that spring will come! I trusted this bird.

    All the Best dear Joanna
    Vincento

    • sundari says:

      Vinceto,
      Thank you for your soulful response to my blog as it is much more than an comment. I am blessed through this blog and otherwise to connected to soul0minded people.
      As you know, I love Carl Jung and I think that he still is one of very few in the field of psychology who had any guts, courage or insight to look what it the design of human soul and look beyond the superficialities of behaviouralism and other such theories that have hardly anything to offer to a true understanding of human nature. But perhaps no one should be blamed as we are a very complex species/creatures?
      So, yes, Jung had the insight and the courage and both helped him to explore the depths of human psyche even it did force him to leave his academic career –as it did not allow him to pursue his deep interests. This is the archetypical choice we have – to obey the fear and offerings of the ego (which sooner or later felt us with dust in our mouth) or to choose the path of the soul which is seldom easy but, ultimately will take us closer to our ‘home’.
      So, I agree there are both limitations and freedom on the beautiful if limited planet. And the choices are not easy. And it is true that we are born to limited number of archetypes and yes it hardly matters who (men or women) thought them for us…BUT as Joseph Campbell said we can create New Archetypes – what is stopping us but the limitations of our own perceptions?
      I say, ‘Nothing.’ We are infinitely creative beings limited at this stage by these 3 dimensions but we are so much more. And I say more – than unless we gather the courage to think out the New Archetypes we are lost. It will take each and everyone of us to make the Choice for the Soul and see beyond the veil of fear and ego. And it is such a difficult thing, such a difficult thing – Yet I wish it for all of us.
      Thank you for this soulful reflection and dialogue,
      Much Love,
      Joanna
      Dr Joanna Kujawa

      • Vinzent Liebig says:

        6th January 2019,

        Dear Joanna,

        Thank you for your answer.

        As far as I can see, the greatest dangers of our time are uniformity and collective fear. We can’t afford to obey these forces. And from that point of view, having the courage to share ones own individual experiences and truth, like you do on your blog, is of enormous value.
        And the both of us seem to share one thing, namely curiosity, which made you a spiritual detective and me an amateur mystic, trying to find out, “what this is all about”. So I hope it is okay for you, when I share some of my findings.

        I do two things in astrology, readings and research. The latter includes things like “analyzing the anima and the animus of the Moon and the Sun” – which means I explore the female and the male aspects of cosmic beings or principles like the Moon and the Sun which mirror very basic patterns of experience and behaviour of the female and male in human beings.

        As we all know, according to the Jungian point of view, each human being contains female and male aspects, anima and animus. But from the alchemical point of view this goes much further and is also true for animals, plants, and metals and so on, because according to alchemy, everything has a soul. And according to alchemy the soul is always organized in a polar structure and always includes female and male energies.

        So I thought, why not research “the anima and the animus of the Moon” and so on. And so I found some basic patterns of the female and the male. I am not talking about “the female” in the sense of “all women” – nor do I talk about “the male” in the sense of “all men”. Live teaches us, that there are endless individual differentiations. I am just talking about some basic female and male patterns.

        Your comment reminded me of something, which I found during that research.

        Maybe it all starts already in the womb. To a female embryo the womb is not different from its own sexual polarity, while for the male embryo it is. The archetypical experience of being in the womb later transforms into the experience being on Planet Earth or in the world. And all of these experiences of something surrounding us – the womb, Mother Earth and the world – are associated with female archetypes. This has different consequences for the sexes in later life while growing up into becoming a woman or a man.

        The most essential point for a man is to allow the experience of being totally overwhelmed by something “unknowable” that is not controllable by mind. For the male embryo the womb is something “different and other” than himself, as far as the sexual polarity is concerned. So in a certain sense the male is always the isolated. The experience of the male is characterized by being different from the womb and thus being isolated and separate right from the beginning. Being isolated from his surroundings is a male idea. And separation can be very painful.

        So men created “religions”, ways of “reconnecting” with the whole. But these ways always still include a big amount of control through the male ego. The base of male ego control appears in religion in the idea, that the “cosmic boss” is an isolated (there is only one god and there is no other god) cosmic male and then the human male one can follow certain rules and disciplines, reach to god in stages, do rituals, control his instincts and so on.

        One can DO and/or THINK and of course one should definitely stay away from women and/or control them, because they might pull one into “the world, hell, Samsara, the next incarnation” and so on. The solution for a man is to allow to be overwhelmed by the oceanic aspect of life; he has to loose himself in all and everything to find himself. The Zen Master Dogen once defined enlightenment as “being intimate with the 10.000 things”. And one way to allow this can be that a man allows a woman to “totally blow his mind”. If a man never allows the experience of being overwhelmed by life, his life might become very stale, dry, desperate, aggressive and of course “religious”.

        The most important point for women is totally different. Her life as a female embryo starts with being in union with her surrounding, which is also female, like her self. So we might say, men start with an isolated ego, while women start with a social ego. While the male is isolated from the very beginning and has to transcend this state in its development, the female is in companionship with a female surrounding right from the beginning. This makes it quite understandable, why women usually are more social than men and why women did not create any religions to “transcend the world”. Why should I transcend or leave a world, which is basically the same as me?

        The solution for the female is in leaving the comfort zone of always being in agreement with other females and stepping into individuation, by expressing her individual differences and starting to live her unique vocation in a creative way. This can not be replaced, by having a highly individuated male companion. Such a companion might be helpful, but individuation is an individual path. Trying to educate ones male partner, which many women try to do, to become happy, does not help either. That is just another way in which the social female ego appears. So a certain kind of “being alone” with here unique individual vocation can and should not be avoided on the path of a woman. If she avoids that completely, she may end up leading a social, but meaningless life. And her individual potentials will be suffocated by irrelevant average values, while she is waiting for “Mister Right to come and save her”.

        Have a beautiful day, dear Joanna
        Vincento

        • sundari says:

          Hi Vincento. This is a very interesting and insightful reflection on animus and anima. And I believe it might be correct. My higher goal in my writing and talks/lectures is to raise the level of human consciousness as I grow and explore myself and our beingness and experience of life. So a reflection such as yours is very helpful and important.
          Thank you,
          Joanna

          • Vinzent Liebig says:

            Thank you, dear Joanna <3 Vincento

          • Vinzent Liebig says:

            8th January 2019

            Dear Joanna I remember two statements of yours, to which I have not yet answered directly.

            First – You said, that “it” is very, very difficult –

            I did not quite understand, what you meant with “it” but let me answer anyway, citing Joseph Campbell who proposed: “Follow your bliss.” I guess that is the answer.
            Let me put it into Freudian terms – once we re-enter the flow of libido, we are back on the right track. People get into trouble by asking:”What should I do?” And of course that gets them into trouble, because words like “should, must, should not, must not” and so on so forth connect us to the Freudian Superego and thus with ideas like “heaven and hell” and “god and bad”: These words raise the fear of punishment and so on so forth.
            But if we ask ourselves: “What do I want to do?” we are relating to our current flow of libido. And there is libido, chi, Orgon, élan vital, Prana as an invisible, subtle force in all and everything and connecting all and everything, namely as the “divine juice” which flows through the whole universe. And that is not only “turning us on” but is also nurturing and offering us a very clear orientation towards joy, happiness, fulfilment and our individuation.

            Second – You said, that we need to create new archetypes –

            Now this is obviously related to the dimension of creativity. So we might as well look at that from an artistic point of view. When an artist looks at a painting, he does not only enjoy to look at the individual elements, all the individual forms and colours, but he also looks at the whole composition of the painting: The composition is the sum total of all the relationships between all the individual elements in the painting.
            So he looks at these relationships and in some way this is again a question of libido. “Is this green spot over there right besides the red triangle a good match, does this combination feel good?” In other words: “Does it feel sexy in one way or other?” And what is sex? Maybe it is the alchemical meeting of opposites? I am not talking of sexual orgies in art museums – okay? 🙂 I am talking in a metaphorical way here, when I say that libido is playing a great role even in art. So in relation to archetypes that might mean, that the relationships between the already existing archetypes may have to change, for example in such a way that female and male Godheads come into a different relationship, into a better balance. And of course, there is always space for creativity as well.

            I once hat a dream about that topic. I felt, that the image of the divine that I had up to that point in time did not match my experience anymore. So I asked my subconscious self to send me a dream with a new image of the divine. So I had a dream about that topic and in that dream I saw a planet, and the Dalai Lama, and one of my best friends, who is a friend of the Dalai Lama, and I saw human beings, animals, plants and minerals and all of that had consciousness, all of it – and all these consciousnesses were all interconnected and interacting with each other. And the sum total of all these interactions and connections was much, much, much more than just the simple addition of them.

            In love 1 + 1 is more than 2. In love 1 + 1 can be 3, 7, 12, 144, and 1000 and so on. So that’s the archetype of the divine my dreaming self came up with and I like it and so I live with it since some years now.

            May you have a wonderful day, dear Joanna!
            Vincento

          • sundari says:

            Hi Vinceto,
            I love your reflection and elaboration on your previous comment. I agree that we are conditioned to act on our ‘shoulds’ and ‘moral imperatives’ which are both a means of control. That is why I love Tantra and Kashmir Shaivism as a philosophy. Morality is necessary to control dark impulses and for this imperfect society to function – but it is not the highest point of reference. I eve wrote once a blog on ‘The Tyranny of shoulds’. Shoulds are an invention of someone/something that wants to control us and our creativity and our Spiritual Evolution. I do not know who it is but I know that we are Angels waking the earth in our sensual bodies between the spiritual and physical realms – for some reason it is our assignment in these bodies, our propulsion to growth. But somewhere on the way, someone/something intercepted the growth (you equate it with Freud’s Superego) and we act out of should and duty instead of acting out of Joy and Creativity and Connection to the larger Universe which is Joy also. Someone equated Spiritual with asceticism and self-denial – which, I believe, is completely wrong. Yes, temporary, even prolonged withdrawal from the senses is beneficiary – but as a life-style it damages our psyche and disconnect us from our soul. Thank you, once again, for this dialogue,
            Joanna
            Dr Joanna Kujawa

  4. John says:

    Persons holding both secular and religious outlooks on life often pose the question, “Do you believe in God?” When this is raised during my Talks to Melbourne’s various intellectual Societies, my usual response is to seek to clarify what is meant by their concept of “God” and in what contexts or realms such a concept can be addressed.

    My answers therefore relate to the three Realms of discourse and their three roles and ranges of the concept. For a start, humanity has created many hundreds of Gods and Goddesses at its various stages of biological evolution and its cultural development and these include various masculine and feminine features and roles in these concepts. No doubt if the Dinosaurs had created deities for worshipping, they would have looked just like Super-Dinosaurs. We can also analyse these Gods and Goddesses within the contexts of their three Realms or Domains of the Mental, the Material and the Middle or Metaphysical Realms.

    The male-gendered Deity or God in the Mental Realm labelled “A”, derives from the inherited archetypal masculine “animus” or instinct relating to males and to the masculine half of reality, which has developed within the human psyche on its various levels of consciousness, including the personal and collective levels.

    The male-gendered Deity or God in the Material Realm labelled “B”, is the pre-symbolized reality of many physical entities, including (1) the Sun and its light for activities and its heat for the growth of plant and animal life; (2) the Great Father, from a child’s perspective and (3) the whole male gender within our known reality. These are all in the Material Realm.

    The male God in the Middle Realm,labelled “C”, is usually in the form of visualized personifications, such as Jesus, especially when it was recorded that the sun was transfigured in the form of Jesus, whose face then shone like the Sun, as Matthew likes to tell us in 17:1-8. This Middle Realm is the metaphysical domain of humanly-created concepts and constructs, which have been and are projected out from within the human psyche as archetypal images. From the outside and as reflections in the material universe, these images are retro-jected back from the Sun and into metaphorical or mythological images.

    Christianity’s resulting image is obviously Jesus Christ, the Miracle Worker who, as or like the sun, can produce enough quantities of food to feed 5,000 hungry followers; can calm storms and can walk on water as the sun does in Palestine at sun-rise on the Sea of Galilee and at sun-set on the Mediterranean Sea in the west. Such a personified supernatural Wonder-Worker can also resurrect every morning at sun-rise; can die every evening at sun-set and can ascend daily to the sun’s high-point at midday. Paul experienced this mid-day solar ascension or Christophany during his conversion near Mt Hermon, north of Caesarea Philippi, as stated in Acts 9:1-12; 22:6-16 and 26:12-18 and Paul, then named “Saul”, was blinded by its powerful rays of light. Mount Hermon was the site for many other such Theophanies or Solar Transfigurations and the

    Christian Historian Eusebius recorded that he had seen the transfigured image of The Christ carved on a shrine at this Mountain.

    The feminine Goddess within the Mental Realm in turn derives from the inherited archetypal feminine “anima” or instinct relating to the feminine and to the female half of reality.

    The Goddess on the Material level is the pre-symbolized reality of many physical entities, including (1) the Moon, with its monthly lunar cycles, including its waxing and waning and its influence on the World’s tides, (2) the Great Mother and (3) the whole female gender within our known reality. These are all in the Material Realm.

    The Goddess in the Middle or In-between Realm and as depicted within Christianity is the personification of Wisdom or Sophia as Mary Magdalene, the close friend and at times depicted Lover of the Human Jesus. She is also the deification of Mary, the biological Mother of Jesus, as the Virgin Mother, the Mother of God and the Queen of Heaven. This Middle Realm therefore features archetypal images which have been projected out from the inherited archetypal instincts and impulses within the human psyche and images, and images which have been retro-jected or withdrawn back from the Moon and its endless cycles into the Great Goddess or into the Eternal Feminine, in which all humans share by means of each person’s “animus” and “anima”.

    These answers do not usually satisfy the Atheists in the Atheists’ Society, because their desire is to close down all discussion relating to the existence and the features of a being called “God” or “The Goddess” in today’s materialistically-oriented World. Biblical fundamentalists in turn are skeptical of any depictions of their “God”, which do not affirm “his” literalized ontological reality as a supernatural, all-knowing, all-seeing and eternal male Supreme Being up in heaven somewhere, wherever that is and his grey hair and a long beard.

    The Spiritual-seekers located in between these two polarities will prefer to move beyond both of these polarities and will appreciate the profound archetypal images, which are produced by their psyches and also the marvelous physical features of Mother Nature which are present in our Universe. In between these two Realms, each Quester will re-mythologize their spiritualty and will anagogically or in a parallel manner, spiritually appropriate the resulting metaphorical and inspirational images for their Soul or Individuation Journeys from womb to tomb. This Journey is experienced in its three stages of (1) unconscious wholeness, then (2) conscious un-wholeness as the psyche rises or ascends into consciousness and finally to (3) conscious wholeness, which offers spiritual integration and union with our whole vast Universe.

    Depth-Psychologist Carl Jung would be pleased that his ideas relating to the Individuation Process are now finding more satisfied followers in our present and just beginning Age of Aquarius. I am sure that the World’s Atheists and Fundamentalists will continue to want affirmations of either their extreme skepticism or their blind faith, both of which are increasingly difficult to maintain. However, I for one am happy to accept that within the above contexts and realms and in relation to the above roles or depictions, humanity’s many and varied Gods and Goddesses will still have much to offer the World’s increasing numbers of Spiritual Questers in in our present 21st century and beyond.

    • sundari says:

      HI John,
      Thank you for this beautiful in depth analysis of the divine archetypes by using Jungian concepts: ‘animus’ and ‘anima’. Your analysis is very interesting and thorough – I really enjoyed reading it. As you probably noticed I do not focus on the A mental Archetype but I do play with all other archetypes as a form of spiritual and intellectual exploration. This kind of exploration is much needed in the world deranged by the Type A model. I also agree with you that it has nothing to do with male-female opposites but rather elements of feminine and masculine qualities. Needles to say the type A archetype is unbalanced, judgemental and generally out of touch with the deeper spiritual reality to which we, as species/creature evolve. I would say that we evolved (and continue evolving) but the type A god did not and it is highest time to say goodbye to him. Having said so, we as species are all on different levels of an evolutionary movement and some people still need the old archetype as it gives them some ’stability’ and ‘rules’. IT is not my intention to disturb them. We all do what nourishes us spiritually. I am, like you, simply interested in exploring new archetypes which ‘speak; to us on our current evolutionary phase or, ideally, will guide us and take us ‘higher’. Thank you for you reaching out and for your fine Jungian analysis. I love this kind of dialogues.
      You might be interested in my upcoming blog on the devolution and evolution of divine archetypes. I would love to hear your opinion when it is out.
      Much love,
      Joanna
      Dr Joanna Kujawa

  5. John Noack says:

    John Noack says:
    10 January 2019
    Dear Joanna,

    Thank you for your enthusiastic response to my musings. I realize that confusion can easily arise when my designated Mental and Meta-physical Realms are explored, because both of these include essentially mental and intellectual activity. My Meta-physical Realm of images involves creating such metaphorical or symbolical images, by projecting out from the psyche or soul, its inherited impulses and instincts and in reflecting and bringing back or retro-jecting from an outer reality in the universe, an actual entity, such as the Sun, the Moon, a Mountain, a River, the Ocean and various other external realties.Both the processes of projection out and retro-jection back can create a vast Realm of Metaphysical symbols and mythical stories, which in turn can lead us back to our archetypally-active psyches or can lead us out to the actual realities, which are being metaphorically represented.

    The Mental realm therefore is active in the task of the Psyche, to store and to project outwards such innate and unconscious impulses and instincts as the Jungian “animus” and “anima” into the Metaphysical Realm. It is also active in normal intellectual processes, which include believing that these projected images are actually existing entities, instead of being metaphorical and mythological representations, which can be appropriated as guides for our spiritual soul- journey. Carl Jung called this process the “ana-gogical appropriation”, a process which includes the Greek word “gogical” meaning “to lead” and “ana” meaing “upwards”. This process was commonly used in medieval Christianity, together with their literal, their tropological or moral and their allegorical biblical interpretations and understandings.

    In relation to gender issues, on a biological and social level, the reality of gender separates biological males and females and this division has also resulted in the separated Ages of Matriarchy, when the females dominated the social, domestic and religious life of the early human settlements. This earlier Matriarchy was replaced during the 2nd millennium BCE by the horse-riding, military-minded, warrior-inspired and Indo-European-based Patriarchy, which included the dominance of the male gender. This Patriarchy was subsequently written into the Hebrew, Jewish, Christian and Islamic Scriptures,including the Christians’ Bible and the present refusal to ordain women and the rejection of Female Pastors and Priests in various conservative and in most fundamentalistic Christian Churches, are still at this very moment, creating huge issues for our World’s female half of Reality and Humanity. We can also include in this bias the Islamic suppression of Women and the West’s representation of only half of Reality and of Humanity in its purely male deity called “God”, along with his flowing beard, his dictatorial masculinity and also in the insistence by Christians that Deity is always referred to in the Bible and in hymns as “He” and “His”. Few Churches are brave enough to call the West’s Deity “She” or “Hers”.

    However, on the spiritual level, both the masculine “animus” and the feminine “anima” work in harmony as complementing features and the ideal is therefore spiritual or psychical or soul-based andro-gyne, another combination of the Greek word “andro” meaning “man” and “gyne” meaning “woman”.

    Whether the biological and secular genders of male and female are ever influence by the spiritual and psychical “andro-gyne” or by the need for the masculine and feminine to work in complete harmony, only time will tell. At least your blog on the “Goddess Diary” is making a very good start to such a much-needed restoration of the feminine and its integration with both the male and the masculine half of reality, into which by chance, I happened to be born.

    May your enthusiasm and your insights continue to assist in arousing our World from its patriarchal slumbers and in restoring the required balance to the present tragic and oppressive patriarchal repression of the feminine. In the grand see-saw of human existence and experience, at least your blog is shedding a small ray of hope for a re-balancing in the future. At least we can all live in hope!

    • sundari says:

      HI John,
      My enthusiasm is justified as I love this kind of dialogue ?. This blog has been created with this kind of interactions in mind (or even better, in soul). So I am delighted every time someone engages with the Goddess news blog and even, better shares their own thoughts, feelings and experiences. I really enjoyed your mentioned of Jungian “ana-gogical appropriation” as a process of leading upward. But what has really caught my attention was the projected images are real and thus have a real existence however subtle. This is a very interesting pint for my reflections and research on inter-dimensionality and other esoteric topics. Jung intuitively connected with the ancient esoteric thought – that fascinates me. So this dialogue is a true delight. Thank you. ?

    • Vinzent Liebig says:

      10th January 2019

      Dear Joanna, Dear John,

      Allow me to comment; even though you dear John did not address me personally I would still like to say, that I really like your text – it is very well written and thoughtful – and let me add an idea by an author named Dion Fortune: She sees the images of Godheads made by humans as created forms, which allow Godheads and humans to communicate with each other. So a physical image, or even a mental and thus “only imaginary” picture of Godhead can function like an antenna AND a transmitter at the same time between the humans and the Godhead involved. So that it can be used as a means of active and passive communication from both sides by the Godhead involved as well as by the humans involved. A Tibetan friend of mine, a mandala painter once said to me: “A mandala is the home of a Godhead.” This expresses the same idea or at least a similar one. And it seems that in times of great cultural change like ours, the “antennas AND transmitters” which have been mentioned above need to be modified or at least “dusted” a little bit, right?

      I thank you both, Dear Joanna, Dear John.
      May we all have a wonderful time.

      Vincento

      • John Noack says:

        John Noack,
        11 January 2019
        Dear Vincento,
        Thank you for high-lighting the two-way flow of communications or of interactions between the three Realms of the Mental, the Material and the Metaphysical. Your mention of the actions of both the antenna or the receiver and also the transmitter or the output within these three Realms, is most helpful. They can facilitate the two-way inter-connecting of our psyches’ projected images, our physical world’s reflecting realities and our vast middle realm of our created metaphysical, metaphorical and mythological images and stories, which, for Carl Jung, can be appropriated anagogically for the Individuation Journey and for the spiritual sustenance or nourishment of the human soul or psyche through Life.

        If Deity, including both the Masculine and the Feminine energies and principles within our universe, is viewed androgynously as the projected deification of the inner Higher Self or of the united and androgynous “animus” and “anima” or if it is viewed as the retro-jected deifications of the masculine Sun and the feminine Moon, both of these images can lead us to the deeper concept of deity or godhood, which for many now represents a non-personalized Ultimate Reality or the Ground of all Being. The irony is that, if we seek to deny such a foundational level of Reality or Deity and if we try to remove the “ground of being” from under our feet, we run the risk of denying that we humans exist. Like Descartes, I still think that I exist. Hopefully you can make the same affirmation,so that we can all join with you in having “a wonderful time”.

        • Vinzent Liebig says:

          11th January 2019 Dear Joanna, Dear John,

          Thank you for your friendly and humorous response, Dear John.

          You touch quite a few topics and there are many concepts involved. Meeting Osho and some Tibetan teachers led me to trust into the open and spacious luminous aspect of consciousness and to consider this as the ground of being or the primordial state, in and from which all creations arise and dissolve again. From that perspective the saying of Descartes: “I think, there fore I Am.” might be understood as an indication that Descartes trusted more into the form aspect of consciousness.

          A woman introduced me into the Huna teachings of Hawaii and these teachings say, that our Higher Self is a being which once lived as a human being and brought about a total harmony of its female and male aspects, or a female/male couple of two beings, which are in total harmony with each other – who would not like to become a Higher Self of that kind?  Hawaiians call it “Aumakua” which means “utterly trustworthy”.

          Since I ran into some Buddhist teachings about “Anatta”, which means “No-Self” lately, this whole existence/nonexistence-thing has bothered me quite a bit. After some month of wrestling with all that Buddhist Emptiness stuff, I came to the following conclusion:

          The Truth

          Of all and everything
          Can not be unveiled
          By taking things apart

          Of course we all know
          It is all molecules
          Atoms, subatomic particles
          And in the End empty space

          But what about the Gestalt of things?
          The beauty of subatomic particles
          Atoms, subatomic particles,
          Molecules, cells and living beings?

          Not to mention planets, solar systems and galaxies.
          Without love, their Gestalt would not be.
          “Empty” space connects.

          Have a wonderful day
          Vincento

          • sundari says:

            Hi Vincento,
            That is a very interesting share of your personal experiences. So you met Osho – was it in India or on the Ranch? And what do you think about the ‘Wild, Wild Country’ documentary? I was associated very closely with another ashram – the lineage of Baba Muktananda fro over 12 years (until a few years ago) so I understand the complexity of that all and have no judgement :).
            Much love,
            Dr Joanna Kujawa

          • Vinzent Liebig says:

            I was in India with Osho from May 1979 until May 1980 and then again in India in Winter 1987. In the seven years in between I was with teachers of Tibetan Buddhism, did the EST-Training and all kinds of other things

          • sundari says:

            What a fantastic and life-changing experience it must have been!

          • Vinzent Liebig says:

            Sorry I forgot to mention that this so called documentary “Wild, wild …” felt like propaganda to me. Maybe that is because I studied hypnosis during my NLP-Training and thus became quite sensitive to manipulative forms of communication. It seems to me, that we live in kind of a dreamworld thanks to the way we handle our thoughts, language, information in the media and so on. Besides that I feel it is very difficult to communicate what I experienced with Osho even to my closest friends because it was really an entering into totally different dimensions of reality day by day, from moment to moment, the experience of linear time continued and still collapsed permanently – as you can see, I start to talk in paradoxes… but what can a poor amateuermystik like do about it? 🙂 Paradoxes appear seemingly then, when several totally different dimensions are touched at the same time – and there are no different dimensions 🙂 Here we go again, another paradox <3

          • sundari says:

            Hi Vincento,
            This is how it felt to me too. Albeit Sheila and the Australian woman went off the track – it seems unless it is all a lie. I have always liked Osho and his audacity to be who he was. I perfectly understand what you are saying about the difficulty of expressing your experiences and shifts in consciousness and perceptions as I have also experienced it with my Teacher. Needless to say, the priorities change and one nether can nor want to live according to the limited perceptions of the past.
            Much Love,
            Joanna
            Dr Joanna Kujawa

          • Vinzent Liebig says:

            12th January 2019 Dear Joanna, Dear John,

            Thanks for your kind responses and commentaries, it feels good to be in conversation with the both of you. Let me add few things.

            First – sometimes Osho’s audacity almost scared the shits out of me, because I got that “wannabeaniceandgoodboyandlovedbyeveryone-thing” going  and he was a master in provoking all kinds of people. The media in Germany were not very friendly towards us and we were all quite visible in our orange clothing. Teachers got thrown out of their job here, when they were wearing orange cloth. But all in all, it worked out fine here in Germany, at least in comparison to other places. In Russia for example Osho’s pupils could only meet in secret during the 80ies.

            Then about Gestalt and beauty – we might say that all of that lies in the eyes of the perceiver, which is true. At the same time there seem to be some principles like the golden cut and self similarity, which indicate, that beauty exists objectively.

            The archetype of the Holy Union of female and male brings me back to the topic of the antenna and the transmitter. In astrology human beings and all other beings and things are seen as more or less complete microcosmic depictions of the macro cosmos and thus as cosmic. I guess that all human beings function as antennas and transmitters of energies which flow between and connect father starry sky with mother earth. And since in love 1 + 1 can be much more then just 2, like 3, 7, 12, 144 or even more, a loving couple can function as a very powerful antenna/transmitter just by being together. Yes, they can create a channel through which cosmic consciousness can come to earth and take on a human form, which is usually called “making children”.

            But l think there is more to that. I think we all work as antennas/transmitters permanently and thus sort of regulate the climate of cosmic energies, which flow in between Planet Earth and the Universe. And loving couples probably do that in a much more powerful way, because as I said before, in love 1 + 1 can be much, much more then just 2.

            In modern astronomy it is quite usual to synchronize several telescopes and antennas around the planet, to get a broader and more accurate picture of our cosmic surroundings. Couples, friends and groups of like minded people can operate in a similar way.

            So from that point of view questions like the equality, peace and harmony between the sexes have much deeper implications then we usually tend to think. Too much division and conflict, especially between women and men, can get us “off track” and “into trouble” even in a cosmic sense. So feminism or humanism is not only a social, political and cultural issue, but also involves psychological, spiritual and even cosmic aspects of reality. So I am not talking only about political, cultural and sexual relationships between women and men here.

            One of my best astrological ideas, namely an astrological method, which allows us to see our individual and collective relationships to galactic consciousness and energies, came to me while I was on the phone with Birgit Braun, a friend and a colleague. My feeling was and is that our dialogs created a “fertile climate for that idea to incarnate”.

            All of the ideas mentioned above have been with me since a very long time. And from my point of view, the conflicts between female and male human beings create an enormous amount of totally unnecessary suffering. So some years ago I decided quite consciously to do something about that by cultivating friendships with women.

            May you both have a beautiful day.
            With cordial regards
            Vincento

          • sundari says:

            Beautifully said, Vincento :).

          • John Noack says:

            John Noack says:
            12 January 2019
            Hello Vincento,
            Thank you for the various insights which you have gained as a result of your global, spiritual explorations. The Higher Self can certainly express a spiritual and harmonious “andro-gyne” of “animus” and “anima”, which can represent the “hieros gamos” or sacred-marriage union. Such a union was an important feature of the various early fertility cults, which actively promoted the creative and fertilizing aspects of the Great Mother, usually in harmony with the contribution of nourishing rain or seed from the sky-based Great Father.
            The Buddhist “Annatta” is part of the Story because the primal unifying and unitive chaos, as part of both the human psyche and of the vast universe, inevitably transforms into its differentiated many individual parts. This sequence follows the usual Jungian Individuation Process of primal “unconscious wholeness” becoming the divisions and disunities of “conscious un-wholeness”.
            Your use of the “Gestalt” fits perfectly here and it depicts how the many separate parts seek to form an overall and organized whole or “Gestalt”, which is much more than the sum of its parts. The German-derived concept of “Gestalt” is therefore very useful here for adding the integrating dimension of human subjectivity, with its appreciation of beauty and expressions of wonder. As you indicate in your poem, our human aesthetic and emotional appreciation of the whole is enhanced by love and the recognition of beauty.
            The Gestalt clearly adds an important holistic dimension to the differentiated world of matter, on both a macro and a micro level. Hopefully this will gradually also extend to the human level, so that an enriching balance of the genders can help to contribute to our much desired bio-psycho-socio-cosmic integration and wholeness.

  6. John Noack says:

    John Noack says
    10 January 2019
    Dear Joanna,
    You have referred to my comment that “the projected images are real”. This statement needs some clarification. Our psyche’s inherited archetypal instincts and impulses, which have been influenced and impacted upon by such external entities as the sun, the stars, the seasons, the environment and other influences, are projected as images which also reflect or mirror these physical realities in Nature.

    Hence, although these metaphysical images remain symbolical, metaphorical and mythological concepts, such images are also closely connected with their sources in Nature, such as the Sun and the Moon. It can be said that the projected images are real images, but they are also closely connected with their corresponding natural and existing realities in the real universe. The various processes here take place in and between each of the three realms of the mental, the material and the meta-physical.

    In relation to the archetypal “anima” or feminine aspect of the psyche and the “animus” or the masculine impulses and instincts, these have also been extensively explored. When the archetypal feminine instincts and impulses are projected out, it is generally agreed that the main resulting projected images include (1) the Good, nurturing Mother; (2) the Bad and evil Mother or Step-mother; (3) the Inspirational Muse and (4) the Wicked old Witch. Since these images arise from powerful and influential archetypal human instincts and complexes, it is not a wise idea to deal with them only on the surface level and to try to remove them from traditional myths and fairy stories. They help to reveal and act as guides for exploring the heights and the depths of the Soul’s Story.

    At the same time, explorers of the male psyche have identified the four main masculine impulses, which include maintaining order, displaying initiative, formulating a spirituality and giving and receiving love. These are seen to be expressed in the images of (1) the King; (2) the Warrior; (3) the Priest or Shaman and (4) the Lover or Saviour. It should come as no surprise that Christianity’s Jesus Christ has assumed these four well-known roles as (1) the King of the Jews or the Ruler of the Universe; (2) the Warrior in the constant battle against evil, depicted as evil spirits; (3) the High Priest in relation to offering sacrifices, including his own and (4) the Lover as the Saviour of all humanity.

    The extent to which these roles are projected images or historically legitimate realities will be difficult to establish scientifically but Carl Jung has clearly indicated that the human soul or psyche can find spiritual fulfilment and a satisfying Individuation Journey, by means of the anagogical appropriation of symbols and mythological stories for our Soul-Journeys from womb to tomb.

    Hopefully in our recently-arrived Age of Aquarius, humanity will see the need for the better balancing of life’s polarities and that humanity will successfully foster the pathway to our bio-psycho-socio-cosmic integration and wholeness.

  7. David Miller says:

    The ancient Persian Empire extended from the borders of Greece (Aegean) to the borders of India (Indus Valley). The Persian Empire took over Babylon in 539 BC and Egypt in 525 BC. So, eventually, Ishtar and Isis came to vitally affect the Empire’s religion, Zoroastrianism.

    Influenced by his mother (the Babylonian Princess, Parysatis), the Persian Emperor Artaxerxes II (404 BC to 358 BC) built Temples for Ishtar and renamed her ‘Anahita’. He placated the traditionalists by also building Fire Temples. This was the beginning of ‘Temple Zoroastrianism’.

    Artaxerxes II incorporated Anahita worship into Zoroastrianism by creating a Holy Family (Trinity) based on Isis, Osiris and Horus: – Mazda the Father, Anahita the Mother, and Mithra the Son.

    I apologise for the shock-value of the above, but such information has been ‘air-brushed’ out of our general knowledge by our Abrahamic civilisation. However, it is now 2019, and we have the internet. So go search!
    Regards,
    David Miller, Sea of Faith in Australia (SoFiA)

    • sundari says:

      Hi David,
      Thank you for that and it is all true. I have read and listened to some renowned Persian scholars that pointed out to several Zoroastrian influences on many later beliefs albeit not with respect to goddesses. Zoroastranism also heavily influenced Manichaeism, etc. And it is a super interesting information about Emperor Artaxerxes II’s mother (Babylonian – makes sense!) So, yes, I agree that there is also a historical explanation for this but I also believe that there is a longer much deeper (and more controversial) history of those beliefs/entities – which fascinates me -even long pre-Babylon – which I might choose to explore in the future blogs. But I do agree with you, that it certainly goes far before the three Abrahamic religions. So do not worry about the shock value. A shock that awakens is of great value and we love it here :).
      Thank you so much for your historical comment and the fascinating fact about the Babylonian mother.
      Much love,
      Joanna
      Dr Joanna Kujawa

  8. Vinzent Liebig says:

    Congratulations Dear Joanna, you got a very nice and inspiring going there on your blog <3 Vincento

  9. Vinzent Liebig says:

    12.01.2019 Dear John,

    Let me answer to what you said about Anatta according to the understanding here.

    According to my astrological research, infinite consciousness needs to look at its own emanations – for example at beings like you, me or who so ever it might be – and recognize itself in these emanations to evolve. So what we humans call “enlightenment” is the moment when infinite consciousness recognizes itself in us. When that happens, we humans experience ourselves as Anatta, as a non-separate self.

    Cordial regards
    Vincento

  10. John Noack says:

    Hello Vinzent,
    I prefer to acknowledge three main stages in the psyche’s Individuation Process and Journey through Life. These stages also appear in the Jewish and Christian Bibles. The initial stage of “unconscious wholeness”, which may be depicted as “infinite unconsciousness”, is presented in Genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew words “tohu” and “bohu”. These words have sometimes been translated as “waste” and “void”, thus indicating a cosmic “formless void”.
    However, consciousness and “conscious un-wholeness” soon enter the Bible’s mythological and metaphorical scene as Adam and Eve consciously decide to eat the fruit, which was probably a “date”, from the tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden. This action will make them be like gods and they will be able to consciously distinguish between good and evil. Christianity has preferred to call this action a “Fall” which requires redemption for this sin, but most free-thinkers now view this preference to make choices as a “Rise” into consciousness and “conscious un-wholeness” and as an increase in the polarities and dualities, which require the making of sensible and rational choices between them.
    In relation to the final stage of “conscious wholeness”, the Bible also offers various integrating symbolical images, such as [1] a Miraculous Messiah, who is both physically human and meta-physically divine at the same time and [2] a symbolical Heavenly City named the “New Jerusalem” in Revelation 21, which has been built with gold and has four walls and twelve gates in the form of a square-shaped, grand unifying mandala.

    It appears to me that, when the different and differing World Religions, including Hinduism, discuss various secular and spiritual realities in our World, they usually use their own particular words and concepts and confusion over the precise meanings of such words and concepts can easily arise. However, in many cases, the Religions’ followers appear to be speaking about and describing the same phenomena or entities. Life would no doubt be much easier, if everybody spoke the same language and used the same dictionary! The trouble is that this would then create an even bigger problem in relation to deciding which one will be chosen as the universal language!
    Best wishes from John Noack

    • Vinzent Liebig says:

      14.1.2019 Dear John,

      I like your models of three stages and there is a pretty similar model in NLP about the stages of human learning.

      A unconsciously incompetent – we do not know anything at all. But since we even do not even know that, we might still be quite blissful.

      B consciously incompetent – then we start to learn and thus come to notice for the very first time, how incompetent we really are. That is the most painful stage which in some cases might even motivate us, “to leave our seminar”.

      C consciously competent – we have learned “it” but to act accordingly still requires our conscious attention.

      D unconsciously competent – “it got into our blood and marrow” and we act with competence as naturally and perfectly as we breathe unconsciously without any conscious effort.

      That much about stages of human learning. In the spiritual teachings which I received, the perspective is a different one.

      There, that which is called Dao, cosmic consciousness, divine, the primordial state etc., which transcends the limitations of human consciousness is seen as something that is already perfect and just to be unveiled. And the unveiling happens through letting go of mental judgements. So one might say, we become aware of cosmic perfection by transcending our judgemental mind and thus healing the original sin of our dear parents Eve and Adam.

      I propose to look at the question of a universal spirituality and language from a radical perspective. The divine is none of our business, should not be! Because that’s the business of the divine! How can we dare as humans to be so arrogant, to fumble around with the divine at all? That’s absolutely idiotic and has created some of the greatest catastrophes on planet earth. We should leave that all up to the divine and should mind our human business!

      Just imagine, the universal human rights were respected everywhere all over the planet. Then all the problems that we have would be solved and we would not need any religion at all!

      And since we would then be truly human for the first time, the divine would finally really unveil it self to us in its true divinity!

      Have a wonderful day
      Vincento

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